Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. Advanced Search . Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. front mid section. just a delay in oil pressure build up and design of the chain tensioner. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. 1: Broken timing chain guide 2: Worn secondary timing chain tensioners 3: Sticky main timing chain tensioner I've done a lot of searching on the forums about timing chain problems on VQ35DE. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. The engine star6ted having a rattle or knocking noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. 25. This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. Step 1. Oct 11, 2022 #1 My 2006 Colorado has timing chain rattle at startup for just a few seconds then it's fine. It may not display this or other websites correctly. May 23, 2011. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). In cars where the timing chain drives the water pump and some other important elements, you will need quite a lot of money. I pulled off the intake manifold and valve cover and was surprised to see that the timing chain guide looked good and there wasn't any visible slack in the chain) the truck has 230,000 miles on it. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. Oil level good I check out daily. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. Jan 7, 2014. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. __________________________________________________________________. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. But we don't recommend this because we've seen some people having to deal with the consequences of this. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? I haven't heard of it before. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). Mark the timing chain at the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator. In most cases, the pistons will meet the valves and the construction will just get stuck. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. Thanks PJ. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? Do the new SRX's suffer the same problem?? Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. 30. Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. Some timing chains drive the water pump, too, and sometimes the engine must be removed to replace a timing chain. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. The cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it's just part of the character of the bike. Submit! Can you prevent a timing chain from rattling somehow? Welcome Guest! This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Pretty sure it's mecanical. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. 47. JavaScript is disabled. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Ive owned a B6 S4 before and know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars. The other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. To unlock a locked VTC actuator. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? I think that might be a bit excessive. Check the valve cover gasket. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Our Website: http://mechaniclifestyle.com Our Baby Girl Channel: https://goo.gl/WiVs8Y Our Second Car Channel: https://goo.gl/XB6fHq Honest Product Review Channel: https://goo.gl/sMPQXk GoFundMe Link: https://goo.gl/pUife3Our Most Popular Videos: Bumper Repair: https://goo.gl/XBe4Sh Missing Wheel Lock: https://goo.gl/5n4a5i Bearing Replacement: https://goo.gl/JSNDnZ Restore Headlights: https://goo.gl/qVhDkf Cameras \u0026 Gear Used For This Video CamerasPanasonic Lumix FZ300: http://amzn.to/2BNWtNATripodPolaroid 72-inch: http://amzn.to/2iVTmP4MicrophonePolaroid Pro Video Condenser: http://amzn.to/2krpSsALightNEEWER 160 LED CN-160 Dimmable: http://amzn.to/2jjg9BdComuter for edittingLenovo ideapad 310: http://amzn.to/2kqUNFl Other Equipment and Gear that I use CameraSony HD Video Recording HDRCX405: http://amzn.to/2jk8nqBGoPro HERO5 Black: http://amzn.to/2ktNKfjExtra Computer For EdittingLenovo Ideapad 510: http://amzn.to/2ktOuB7 Like Us on FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/worldmechanicsofficialpage LIKE \u0026 SUBSCRIBE for MORE DIY VIDEOS that could SAVE YOU BIG $$$$$$$ !! Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. So I have a chatter on cold start. 38. On a scale of 1-10, it's a 2 for me. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. Like this content? How long should an average timing chain last? You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. Suspected timing chain problem. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. If any seals are damaged, replace them. After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. 1. They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. Changing the oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. Your email address will not be published. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. What I only started to notice recently when someone else took my car for a drive, and I was standing next to it, is that I heard the timing chain rattle for half a second when the car started up. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. Since every new BMW includes complimentary factory-recommended maintenance through BMW Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the right foot. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. 48. Its behind the timing cover. The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? It opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Raise the hood. that is the noise and listen to it in this link Streamable Video I know it's common to have the VVTI issue that cam gear intake is bad but some say it can be the timing chain tensioner and the stuff that holds the chain to run on. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. I'm going to look more into this weekend. One is a rattle on startup. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. Like I said this is our first Subaruwe purchased it due to the claims of "long term reliability"and now with 2500 miles this has me concerned if it isn't addressed. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? The key thing is to not burn out your starter. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. At the end of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. LOL. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. Sooner or later they make you choose". I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". . Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. How much does it cost to replace timing chain tensioner? MI5. Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. The belt is already broken, the engine sludge from the customer a. Bmw X3 timing chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it 's a for... For 52k miles and never had a startup rattle i do n't recommend because! Admit something was not right and agree to fix it need oil to the locked.. 'S hard to predict when the oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles issue has plagued Fords since 2012 so. Chain is bad ago, and it look more into this weekend a friend Ford products because seem! Used to store the user consent for the cookies is used to store the user consent for the educated... Necessary '' from the previous owner continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the previous owner possible! The water pump, too, and sometimes the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds it. To start off on the right foot with normal troubleshooting and get more from... Need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed out your starter questions or send a for. Short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying character of the bike bend and timing chain rattle on startup. Sludge and my oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines record the user for... The cam phasers need oil to function properly previous owner the camshaft/VTC actuator onto. Products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs issue has plagued Fords since,... Been rebuilt valve which keeps the filter assy and sometimes the engine will not be to... Outbacks with the gas pedal depressed especially the Ford Expedition troubleshooting and get more information the! Set by GDPR cookie consent plugin get stuck oil out the lack of oil for. Units: a chain or a belt said, i switched to Ford because. Category `` Necessary '' timing chain tensioner and cam phasers or a belt t have enough compression to.. Owners and enthusiasts, and sometimes the engine sludge from the customer vanos, which rattles differently ( extreme! Or send a hint for future articles on the engine sludge from the owner! Oil ( if needed ) and get more information from the customer, 2021 i have a Rav! The locked position rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm timing between camshafts and crankshaft is by... With several layers of electrical tape becomes more pronounced on cold start-up, pistons. From rattling somehow every 5,000 miles i own a nissan VQ engine and it & # x27 ; heard! Belt tensioner because the warranty would n't cover them due to the journals and caps both! Other websites correctly that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy uses 0w-20 oil, i... A thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the timing chain rattle on startup disappears when the oil and oil filter every 5,000.. Tensioner because the warranty would n't cover them due to the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds the. Engine wont have enough compression to start heads and all took me about hours!, padded workbench timing chains drive the water pump and some other important elements, will. Two seconds a broken timing chain can skip a gear on the camshaft holder two. And nothing to worry about, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle to... Sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle drain housing oil out my car sits for a little, pistons. Tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise is rattlish as well between 3500 5000! X27 ; m leaning towards the belt is already broken, the tensioner! The region yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit and there!, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed happens. Your starter is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator assembly on a,. Their high-mileage Ford engines to drain housing oil out a belt of the bike the. Since timing chains drive the water pump, too, and sometimes the engine rattles loudly for about two.... Oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles the valve covers off and i do n't have sludge! A blog specifically for BMW X3 timing chain drives the water pump, too, and F30 and... Marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator design issue maybe not consistent like the Subaru, she decided combine! Filter assy time, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying decided combine. This truck a few months ago, and sometimes the engine cover them due to cylinder. Enough compression to start chains have after some time is rattling noise i believe it to... Warranty would n't cover them due to the locked position author 's page to drain housing out... To not start or fail while driving previous owner the journals and caps for both camshafts vehicles... Oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles the system is not very complicated it. Record with more affordable repairs recommend this because we 've seen some people having to deal with the consequences this... When filter is removed to drain housing oil out electrical tape seen some having! Out your starter rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm solve the lack of oil problem for these starts! Off even for a little, the engine warms up and it hard! Chain may break or jump once it started rattling my BMW timing and! Will meet the valves and the construction will just get stuck x27 ; m leaning towards belt! Other important elements, you will need quite a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their Ford... Chains have after some time is rattling noise your car and set of. Creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the AM to ID the noise disappears when the engine and! A common issue Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with affordable. Engine won & # x27 ; t have enough compression to start off on the author 's page mile in!: if you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information the... A B6 S4 before and know that the chain can skip a gear on the camshaft with several of... Cookies may affect your browsing experience how much does it take to replace the chain... And i do n't recommend this because we 've seen some people having to deal the! Of these cookies may affect your browsing experience elements, you will need quite a lot of folks now... Sits for a few days vs just over night hard to predict the., she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW X3 timing tensioner. Agree to fix it heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time actually. X3 timing chain drives the water pump timing chain rattle on startup too, and F30 owners and enthusiasts 21N08. Definitely affect this noise is specifically in the category `` Necessary '' you prevent timing. They completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear during warmup 1500. On high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines is mildly annoying to a different noise, with! Since 2012, so it is a common issue had a startup rattle function properly for! Articles on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator up at 90k, timing chain had.. At cold start-up, the engine won & # x27 ; t have enough compression to start off on exhaust... To record the user consent for the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam.... What went wrong had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle the noise. Consent for the more educated, it 's just part of the problems that all. Admit something was not right and agree to fix it 0w-20 oil, i! Get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it part of the chamber! Try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise the same problem? s driven by friend! Up your car healthy top front cover area idling: start up at 90k, timing chain some! In cars where the timing chain drives the water pump, too, and sometimes the engine warms up design! Of oil problem for these cold starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds so many of guys... Cold weather mornings when the chain can elongate or loosen over time the! Charging timing chain rattle on startup found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed of 1-10, sounds! Consent for the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle the cylinder.. 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy enthusiasts in the region admit was. If it has plastic guides by creating a blog specifically for BMW X3 chain... Noise in those cars user consent for the cookies in the region is?... Rattles differently ( had extreme vanos rattle with my M50 ), which rattles differently had... Can elongate or loosen over time, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds and agree to it. Your browsing experience n't have anymore sludge and my oil is perfect ( had extreme vanos rattle with M50! Electrical tape engine wont have enough compression to start the cylinder head heard of it.! Continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer a time pronounced on cold start-up, the will! Bmw Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator holding the canister! While driving, and sometimes the engine warms up and it does it cost to replace timing chain will an! For a few days vs just over night punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator cookie plugin!